Star Wars: The Force Awakens

In this week's episode we talkabout the highest grossing film of 2015, the most expensive film ever made, the seventh instalment in the Star Wars Skywalker saga: 'The Force Awakens'. 
We discuss the force and how it works, talk through all the new characters and their arcs, talk Snoke theories, chat about THAT death scene and have our first visit to Mr Potter, who has a question for us both. Ultimately, we'll decide whether 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' deserves a spot on our DVD shelf. May the force be with you!

Imagine having awesome names like Han and Leia and then calling your son Ben. Ben's a fine name in our galaxy but in a galaxy far far away, where the choices could've been Anakin, Lando or even Watto...I'd have been super disappointed if named 'Ben'. Same argument applies for Luke, or Chewbacca.

Hosts - Ellis Barthorpe & Gwilym Roberts
Music - James Milsom
Instagram/TikTok/Twitter - @talkabout_pod

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Transcript

Gwilym 0:00

A military deserter an orphan scrapper, and a veteran criminal with

an interesting relationship to his furry friend travel from planet

to planet leaving death and destruction on to give a memory stick to

a princess turned Gen. I have a bad feeling about this

Ellis 0:18

and I am worth 95 portions and

Gwilym 0:22

this is Star Wars Episode Seven The Force Awakens

if you were going to have a lightsaber of colour what lightsaber

colour would you want and then like what like style of lightsaber

would you want

Ellis 0:56

standard style? Standard fuzzy boy I don't want any Kylo Ren

business don't want double edged I think it's too much to think

about just go standard, not obliged to swim

Gwilym 1:08

with one side and cut yourself in half

Ellis 1:10

off, man. So I think I'll just go standard. I think the like I'm not

saying I'd be a Sif. I'm just saying I think the red lightsabers are

the coolest. So I think I'd go readiness sit over there. I just I

just said that's not what I'm saying.

Gwilym 1:29

Okay, yeah, yeah, I don't know any Jedi that have a red lightsaber.

That's what I'm saying.

Ellis 1:37

What about you? What would you pick?

Gwilym 1:39

I think I'd want a double edge. I think you know, that's the that's

what I quite like but I like it on the Star Wars game. Jedi survivor

we breaks it in half and then has double wield a quite like that as

an idea. And then either white

Ellis 1:59

or purple, white or purple. Yeah, I can't get on board with his

white business load of bullshit. I look so good, though. Isn't it

like orange anyway? Oh, no, like a soaker white? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Gwilym 2:15

Oh, you know, there's white lightsabers that are orange is

Ellis 2:20

the rise of Skywalker, they introduce the the orange light. I'm sure

it's introduced somewhere else. And

Gwilym 2:26

she's got an orange one. At the end of it. It's just like what?

Well, no, it makes even less sense. Because in the culture of Jedi,

Orange was given to the Jedi guards who would like guard the temples

and stuff. And so it doesn't make sense for for Ray to have it. But

you know, what does make sense in that film? That's already going

off track. Yeah, today we are talking about episode seven of Star

Wars the first Disney film, the first Disney Star Wars film since

their takeover. And that's where actually I want to start. I don't

want to start by talking about this film. But I've got a timeline in

front of me of when significant things happened in the production of

of this film. Because the last we left Star Wars was Episode Episode

Three Revenge of the Sith. And we've got a few little bits of TV

here and there but nothing major. And then October 30 of 2020 12 it

was announced that Disney had bought Lucasfilm and that there was

gonna be a new Star Wars film in 20. Star Wars. Star War film stars

war. What did you What did you think about this?

Ellis 3:47

I remember being excited at first, the trailer for The Force Awakens

came out when we were in Disneyland, Florida. Once in a Lifetime

holiday, were in Disney, and Disney released their trailer of Star

Wars. So I remember that added to the hype for me. And I remember

that we'd like people taking the piss in advance. And even when the

trailer came out, saying this is what the Disney Star Wars is going

to look like. And it was like stormtroopers with Mickey Mouse's and

stuff like that. So I remember it being like a bit of a joke like

that. But that was before Disney kind of owned everything. So it was

like what Disney owning Star Wars that doesn't make sense. People

thought it was all gonna be like animated musicals. But no, I think

it was an exciting prospect. And for for the beginning, I wrote as a

note when rewatching the Force Awakens. That to begin with, I was

super excited about Force Awakens. And when it came out, I loved it.

The colours the field the new like droids, the new lightsaber of

Kylo Ren the new characters, it just had a new feel a fresh feel to

it, and I really loved it. So I remember the hype I remember the

buildup and I remember being excited about it. And since the view on

Disney has kind of changed, you know, it's been nearly 10 years

since that happened. In fact, I think it has been 10 years since

that happened. Yeah. So

Gwilym 5:12

yeah, we got the the next sort of big news was the trailer which

features you've got this cool look at the key moments were Kylo Ren

with his crossguard lightsaber, you got a shot of John Boyega.

Taking a stormtrooper helmet off, you got a few shots of C 3pm. And

then the big KeyShot was at the end when Han Solo and Chewie comes

aboard the Millennium Falcon. And Han says Chewie we're home. And I

remember seeing that and I was I because I you know, it seems silly

because I was bloody 14 years old. But I was worried about the Star

Wars Disney taken over, because I did think Oh, is going to be naff

and blah, blah, blah. But seeing them do that made me go. Okay, no,

I'm happy. I'm happy with what's going on.

Ellis 6:06

It just it was legacy films before. I know legacy films had been

done before Force Awakens. But this felt like one where it had that

nostalgia and I think every legacy film since has been trying to

capture the Force Awakens caught

Gwilym 6:22

Yeah, this was the one that I think in the same way that the MCU

created the whole Multiverse vibe and all of that this was the one

that created the legacy vibe in my opinion. Like we wouldn't have

got scream we wouldn't have got Jurassic World or anything like

that. If we had

Ellis 6:43

Oh, yeah. sick world. Yeah, no screen though. That is sad. That is

be sad. And

Gwilym 6:50

lots of as if we hadn't had had Star Wars Episode Seven. So not to

kanji club.

Ellis 6:58

To kanji club.

Gwilym 7:02

Was kanji club

Ellis 7:03

tilde at the kanji Club. Well, while doing this, you know as Force

Awakens when Han Solo's in the he's in the big ship with Yeah,

Gwilym 7:11

and he's like, Yeah,

Ellis 7:15

I never made a deal with kanji club to let the kanji club

Gwilym 7:18

Do you know, kanji club are the two like main people in the raid

films. Them Yeah. Which was one of the big disappointments of this

film for me was you've got two people who are insane with stunts and

fight choreography, and you don't have them do anything. But, you

know, that's all right. So the cast for this the main three, I

guess, well, four new bits of new cast members had Daisy Ridley as

Rey, John Viega as Finn, Adam Driver as Kylo Ren and Oscar Isaac as

Poe Dameron. And I say Oscar Isaac last because he originally wasn't

meant to be a big part of this film. He was meant to die when the

ship crashed, but they just loved what he brought to the character

in his presence on on onset, but they went Nah, let's keep him on,

which I am happy for. What are you sort whether you want to start

with this film, because it's a big chunky film to get into?

Ellis 8:26

Poor it's a good eye. Maybe the characters those you've just

mentioned those new casting, so why don't we start with each of

those have a little chat about each of those characters? Yeah. So,

Ray, I guess, yeah,

Gwilym 8:39

let's let's go free. So Ray is she's basically a scrapper on Jeddah.

She's the character in this film with the most mystery surrounded by

her. She we don't know anything about our family. We don't know

anything about her backstory. I don't think she really knows

anything about it. There's hints of her having aspects of the force

dribble throughout the film, and then in the climactic fight, we see

her being able to use a lightsaber and even being able to compete

with Kylo Ren albeit him after taking a crossbow bolt to the chest.

Ellis 9:19

Yeah, I think they obviously do that. I mean, we're not they

obviously do that with the crossbow to to weaken him because they

know he's gonna be too. Yeah, I do have concerns which I'm sure

we'll get into later with an qualms with how decent and natural Rey

and Finn are with a lightsaber. That's fine. I think it's the enigma

of the character of ray that makes her work in this film. Because

like the Star Wars leads before sorry, everyone, but she's pretty

wooden. In a put in a performance. I think it's a bit like Hayden

Christensen is better than that. But it's the similar sort of thing

of like it's playing the lead. It's played very straight. Yeah, but

I think the character works in this because there's this intrigue

and this mystery about her. And she is likeable. And there is a

likability she just comes across as a bit two dimensional. I suppose

she's talking to a droid a lot, so I should give her a bit of slack.

But as the performance goes, That's my array as a character. I

remember thinking, Yeah, I'm intrigued by her, I was probably more

intrigued by Bo, that I was Finn and Rey. But that's because Finn, I

had the intrigue before. I remember seeing Finn a storm to me like,

that's new. That's something we've not seen before. But then as it

went on that film, you learn a lot about Finn. Whereas Ray, by the

end of this film, there's still a lot that you feel like you're

gonna find out.

Gwilym 10:40

Yeah, I mean, Ray, sort of is the Luke Skywalker character, isn't

she? She's, there's a lot of comparisons you can make with this film

with a new hope. And Ray's story and her vibe. Follow along with

Luke Skywalkers. I disagree with you on something. I think Finn is

the most interesting character in this film. Because I think he's

got the most interesting relationships to every character. And like,

one of my favourite bits of the film, is when he's fighting, I can't

remember what the plan is called. But you know, the planet with the

the Tavern on it.

Ellis 11:20

I think it's called Takodana.

Gwilym 11:23

I'll agree with you. I don't know. And, and you get the whole trade

our bit. Yeah, that's,

Ellis 11:32

yeah. That's what I mean is that by the end of the film, you kind of

know what Finn's about.

Gwilym 11:38

But you know, anything about his back is family you've really didn't

Ellis 11:43

really have like he was taken as a kid. And he's been a

stormtrooper. Since Exactly.

Gwilym 11:48

Look, I think we'll get maybe more into what we think of the trilogy

as a whole. But I think the biggest crime of this trilogy, is Finn,

because I think he gets set up to be this primary character that has

a lot about him has some really good lines, his bromance with powers

fantastic. He's got really cool relationship with with Ray his

relationship with hands really nice. And then slowly he shot sort of

gets more and more irrelevant as shoved to the side.

Ellis 12:19

I do think there's an element of fan manipulation in the in the

Finns in this film and posing this film. And because they get on

everyone, chips, and everyone hops on board, the bromance, which

there is there's there's a good chemistry between them. But then it

kind of feels like you're setting yourself up for disappointment

between them if you're German, just because they get to two

characters that get on in a film like doesn't mean that they're

always going to have this bromance, and it's all about their

relationship. I do understand and get what you're saying about Finn,

that he's a bit a bit underused, because John Boyega puts a lot into

the character, and he's great as the character. So by the time

especially riser Skywalker, he's essentially irrelevant. So I agree

with you on that point. But I do think there is an element of the

fans wanting one thing, and then when it doesn't happen, it's easy

to be enraged equally. The fans just wanted something and we

couldn't get any of you.

Gwilym 13:18

I mean, my my big thing is, I don't think you can put Finn holding a

lightsaber in order promotional material, and then just not use

that. And then subsequent films like I think we're getting on to the

more wider universe. But it would have been, we've already seen the

orphan in a desert turns out to be incredibly powerful with a force

all of that we've already seen that twice before. With Anakin and

with Luke, how interesting would it have been that a storm trooper

deserter has the force and it has becomes really powerful with the

force and has to then grapple with what he was and what he was doing

to them to be a peace Bringer and all of that, I think that would

have been just so interesting.

Ellis 14:11

I think it would have been more interesting for him to not have the

force to still be a lightsaber wielder, maybe, but not have the

force in that I think, him having the force would feel a little bit

coincidental, especially when

Gwilym 14:25

you got to have the force to wield lightsabers. Well, you know,

that's what happened with Mondo.

Ellis 14:30

Yeah, but I just mean, him and Ray, oh, they're the two Jedi and

they coincidentally find each other. It just I think it would seem a

little bit. Yeah,

Gwilym 14:40

it's the force, like you can just use I mean, you've got hand going.

That's not how the force works, which is one of the best lines in

the film. Yeah, but, but that's always something to fall back on.

You know,

Ellis 14:56

tell that your country club

Gwilym 14:59

is just gonna yo go to this episode. I like it as a goatee. So let

me just say that. Okay, so we've spoken about him a little bit. What

about Poe? Poe

Ellis 15:11

Dameron is one of the coolest characters to enter a franchise. Later

on, I just I think he comes in and he's instantly likeable. He you

have this initial meeting he has with Max von Sydow his character on

Jakku. And then he runs out. And then we have the his interaction

with Kylo Ren when he's on his knees and he says first or I talk

first Yeah, that bit and instantly like him. It's nice, likeable.

And then he obviously gets taken, we have the interrogation with

Kylo. I think Oscar Isaac is so good. We're big fans of Oscar Isaac.

Yeah. In every everything he's done. But I think here, he's just

showing it he. I'm not saying he carries the film. But I'm saying

he's the Han Solo. And to come in yet def knowing that you're the

you've got to fill the shoes of Harrison Ford, even though Harrison

Ford's in it. He's the Obi Wan Kenobi character of this film. Yeah.

So the fact that you have Oscar Isaac so confidently set stepping

into that role, when the person who was in that role is in the same

film. I think he's wild. And I think he does such a good job.

Gwilym 16:19

I think not just he does a good job. But also, I don't know who it

is, whether it's the director or the visual effects or something,

but when they're on the cantina planet, and there's that essentially

one shot of Fenn looking up at him, and he takes down like, yeah,

eight or 10 things and he's like, that's a hell of a pilot and all

of that, like, that doesn't make you go. This guy's cool. Like,

there's no other word to it. He's just cool. I've realised I'm being

a bit of a traitor today. I've realised I'm wearing a Marvel top.

Come on. Respect. Yeah, not a Star Wars top. So look, Disney owns

both, so

Ellis 16:59

yeah, I completely agree. And let's let's face it, Poe Dameron

Smash.

Gwilym 17:05

Smash. Speak on Smash Kylo Ren does smash Kylo Ren smash his

weights? Swallow like

Ellis 17:15

that scene when he goes rage mode and the two stormtroopers come

around. Yeah, that's one of my favourite scenes. Yeah, it's so

funny. Yeah,

Gwilym 17:25

because that's what I remember when it came a lot of people went Oh,

dude, he's made it so like, funny and blah right? And it's like Star

Wars has always been funny the whole bit when they have the fight

just outside layers sell and then has like, everything's alright

here. Just a weapon malfunction.

Ellis 17:43

Always been silly. Like there's some stupid flippin stuff in Star

Wars. Yeah, flippin pit that's got a big mouth in it. And if you

fall literally, yeah, that's, that's silly. That

Gwilym 17:54

is silly. But yeah, Adam driver, who I think obviously, this is the

film where his face is covered for nearly half of it. After this,

they sort of give up on the mask for the rest of the trilogy. And he

arguably has as big shoes to fill as Beau being the main villain in

this new trilogy, who has to work out even though it's his whole

character is trying to replicate Darth Vader. He needs to find a way

as an actor, and to use this character to show something different,

something we haven't seen before. I think he does that really well

with showing the moments he loses his cool. And then you know, when

Darth Vader choke someone out through a video camera, you go are

that sick? worse because he's reckless, and he hasn't earned our

respect like Darth Vader's. I think that really helps differentiate

him.

Ellis 19:00

But strangely, it's not until he has the interaction with Vader's

helmet. And you realise he's his grandson? Yep. It's not until that

moment that you think, Oh, he's just the guy. And it's similar when

he takes his helmet off with Ray and you're like, oh, wait, Ray

could be him. Because the guy I think

Gwilym 19:19

is when you see him, and you're like, oh, like first time I saw him.

I was like, Oh, he's young is like, yeah,

Ellis 19:24

yeah, you just, it just takes you about so I think he's that backs

up your points so much that he's trying to he's living in Vader's

shadow. And he's trying so much to be as threatening as him but he

doesn't really know how because he's not really got a mentor. Slim

is not really a mentor. He's just a power hungry guy us trying to

teach him something and not that we really ever find out what. But I

think well, it's parallel. There's obviously so many parallels with

this to Star Wars to a new hope. And one of the big ones is that we

start with a big villain see scene and we're on a hero surface and

the villain comes in and wreaks havoc and asserts their dominance.

Yeah, and I think that initial introduction of Kylo Ren is perfect.

Yeah, him stopping the bullet that

Gwilym 20:13

harsh you step on the game and what the what the force can do.

Ellis 20:19

It is saying the stakes, isn't it? It's like yes, this is what you

can expect. The rules are kind of out the window, we're going to

rebuild them. The rules have adapted, everything has changed, or the

storm troopers all look different. They look smarter. They look

slicker. So that introduction is like five star filmmaking worthy

stuff. Yeah. Especially because you think

Gwilym 20:40

about when Vader leaves the ship with later on, you know, although

we now know what he did beforehand. And Rogue One. I don't think

he'd say to the stormtroopers Hey, kill everyone on board. No, no,

but they're like, What should we do with the villagers? And he's

just like, kill them. And it's, it really does show. Yeah, a whole

new dynamic and it said asserts him as a threat from the author, I

think continues to do so. You know, Star Wars, obviously needs to

have the heroes winning a lot. And heroes winning in unlikely

circumstances. But it never feels like it's because of Kylo Rennes

incompetence. Because he's then got is it hooks is that Lisa's

character? He's got him that sort of mess it up. And bigs up his

stormtroopers maybe a bit too much, Carlos. Just cool man.

Ellis 21:41

Who do you think if you were in a bouncy castle, who do you think

you'd have more chance to win against in a fight? Kylo or Vader?

Gwilym 21:48

Kylo. Vader's like, six, five. Yeah,

Ellis 21:52

but I think Vader would be like, because he's quite a heavyset guy.

Gwilym 21:56

Yeah, robot.

Ellis 21:58

I think it Yeah, he'd be falling over each struggle on a bouncy

castle. I think I think I'd have a better chance against Vader than

I would against Kylo. Are they using the Force? No, it's just it's

just fist. Okay. Okay.

Gwilym 22:11

I was also thinking, you know, Vader just has

Ellis 22:16

a bouncy castle.

Gwilym 22:17

I still think because I'm not being funny. But I punch Vader. I'm

breaking my hand. Like,

Ellis 22:22

if you take his mask off, it's just true.

Gwilym 22:27

True. No, I think I can still take Harley.

Ellis 22:33

I think that's ambitious. May Adam Driver is built.

Gwilym 22:37

Adam Driver. Yeah, but I'm talking about Force Awakens. Kylo. Not

benzoyl. Okay, okay, fine. All right. Let's go to that moment, then

that huge moment that I think changed the game and again, set the

precedent for what other legacy films are going to do. When Kylo

kills question mark, Han Solo. And I say question mark, because I

still haven't decided every time I watch it. Is it Kylo? That pushes

the button? Or is it Han Kylo?

Ellis 23:09

Okay, you can tell whether you can you can tell whether shock in

hand solos face it. He's, I think he's convinced of what's

happening. I know that there's the lib before. That's Kylo saying.

Just, you know,

Gwilym 23:25

I know what I have to do.

Ellis 23:26

I know what I have to do. I don't know, but I'm just helped me get

there. Don't think about the strength. I don't think that's I think

that's why you'd maybe be led to think Oh, hence. That's why I'm

doing it for him. But I don't I don't think

Gwilym 23:37

I was wondering whether it was hand pushing it because hand nodes

like Kylo can't right. Well, Ben can't go to back to a layer right

now. And can't go back to the first floor that would have been

alive. Zohan. Yeah,

Ellis 23:58

but I like this film, but do you think that they're subtly clever

enough? Like doing that in those subtleties anywhere else?

Gwilym 24:06

The actual answer comes from after watching Rise of the Skywalker

when Han goes shmup he kept me it's probably he does say

Ellis 24:15

she keeps me up as well does

Gwilym 24:16

he does I've got about sheepish

Ellis 24:19

map. But

Gwilym 24:20

our first time I saw this I mean a fan theories with this film. were

insane ranging from Finn, Finn bien mais Windows child. Ray was

everyone's child at some point.

Ellis 24:36

You pick the right thing you can get because they do mention our

child a lot. It was like and also who's

Gwilym 24:45

Obi Wan Kenobi his voice comes in the force dream Yeah, for some

reason they don't make up Yeah, way. You have the fan theories.

Obviously a massive one was who Snoke is. So when you first watch

this, who did you think? Snoke was,

Ellis 25:01

I think I thought it was a Palpatine clone that went wrong. Oh, so

Gwilym 25:06

you were just right. That's not what he was though. Yeah. Snake was

just poutines clones that didn't fulfil what they needed to do. Oh,

maybe

Ellis 25:19

am I getting confused and thinking that? I'm sure that's what I

thought at the time. I guess it right. Yeah, but I think I thought

more like Palpatine was more of a that

Gwilym 25:29

Snoke maybe was more rebellious? Yeah,

Ellis 25:31

something like, yes, fireman. I don't know. But I think Snoke for

me, the most disappointing part of the trilogy is, although I

absolutely love that moment in the last Jedi, it would be so much

better. If you'd had more from him. We knew who he was. We knew what

he was about. Yeah,

Gwilym 25:52

I mean, I think it would have been sick for smoke to be dropped in

half. Them have all that fight. And then you just hit smoke SLAF and

somehow, just Palpatine has just done it. I've just done it. See,

there's the rise of Skywalker by the way last week when we were

talking about gene to me and as well like, you know, we like to

write and tune to majors go what's the point? Rise of the Skywalker

for me is the opposite of that. Because I'm like if someone Yeah,

read for exactly. Some Humpin between Fatah return. I'm like, bro, I

can bloody Yeah. Easy. Maybe

Ellis 26:35

that's why they did it mate just to make people like me. And you

feel Yeah, yeah, this feels shit. And then. And then it's the little

people that are gonna feel better. Thanks, guys. So

Gwilym 26:46

I actually I'm just going to check this because this is not

including inflation, but it was on a pub quiz by me went to the

other day. And I chose this film so far because it came out and same

year as the minions but it was the highest grossing film of that

year. But did you know this film was the most expensive film ever to

be made?

Ellis 27:17

What and still is? Yep. Jesus.

Gwilym 27:21

And so here's fun that fun little game. Can you give me the next

four

Ellis 27:29

most expensive films ever?

Gwilym 27:32

Yep.

Ellis 27:33

The Last Jedi. Nope. Worth a shot. War. Maybe Avengers. End Game.

Gwilym 27:43

That's number five.

Ellis 27:46

So is infinity war on the note?

Gwilym 27:49

Let me know if you want any hints. Yeah, go on. Give

Ellis 27:52

me some hints. Okay,

Gwilym 27:54

so they're all parts of franchises. And they're all sequels. Number

four is a Disney franchise we haven't mentioned. But we both enjoy

the first three of this franchise in

Ellis 28:11

the Indiana Jones note. Enjoy the fourth of that one. So I don't

know. I guess that the first three of this franchise

Gwilym 28:24

Toy Story for Nope. It it was heavily shot on location. Disney owned

Disney owned. Has a ride in in Disneyland as a ride.

Ellis 28:41

And guardians as a ride. It's not guardians note

Gwilym 28:45

came out in 2011. This film which was a sequel, bloody hell. This is

painful stars Johnny Depp.

Ellis 28:55

It's got to oh right pirates, the Caribbean. The Caribbean

Gwilym 28:59

On Stranger Tides. Oh, and before

Ellis 29:04

I get quicker.

Gwilym 29:06

Number three. Today we are talking about the franchise. So Raisa

Skywalker. Yep, that's number three. And number two is a franchise

which took some inspiration from bringing back a legacy film for a

very disappointing trilogy to a trilogy of films. That matrix. No.

Oh

Ellis 29:34

Jurassic World dominion.

Gwilym 29:35

Close fallen kingdom. Fallen kingdom

Ellis 29:39

was more expensive than dominion. Yep. Oh my god.

Gwilym 29:43

Yep. Dominion was 17th According to her a Qantas Well, I was really

surprised when I learned tests at fact that avatar, the web portal

was seventh because I thought that would be definitely in there. But

no. So yeah, it's interesting. thing that Star Wars has two of the

most expensive films ever made. And that four out of five of them

are Disney owned.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai